You know the final nail in the coffin...

Discussion in 'General' started by Biggs_Darklighter, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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    I think that's really the crux of the division @smutpedler. I've invested a lot of time, emotion, and money into SW over the years. (lame, admittedly)
    Disney took over and said tough shit we want other money. Now, sucker. Oh and BTW: we're going to give a public execution to the EU, only to grab Thrawn, then proceed dick first into the new path with the same combative approach to customers, and if you don't like it you're a ______-ist-ism-er.

    Run towards the new $ after some big screen EU love, and it goes a lot smoother. Which begs the question; why take such a hostile stop/turn anyway? They're going to churn out movies forever, not like they don't need the writing help. No shortage of stories, and I can almost guarantee you can get Anderson/Stackpole/Zahn tier for cheaper. Why?

    That's why people go to the agenda driven angle. It's baffling otherwise. We all know the agenda stuff's going great for everyone on both aisles, right? Time will tell if this whole thing is a smart business move, wtf do I know about a billion dollars. In the meantime, I'm turning kids on [dramatic pause....] to other stuff. They don't need to be wrapped in a fucking culture war, and I'm not going to give money to a company that treats long term customers like Charmin.
     
  2. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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  3. Darth Glaxus

    Darth Glaxus Level 31

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    I personally like the new Star Wars movies. And I don't blame the new movies, but rather Konami's greed and lack of keeping good events going.
     
  4. Biggs_Darklighter

    Biggs_Darklighter Level 17

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    I truly have no idea where that comment came from.

    One of two things is happening here:

    Either you are a desciple of George Takei and believe that your views are so superior that no real person could ever disagree with you, thus any divergent thought is the result of a "Russian bot",

    or you have simply been programmed to respond with leftist responses that you don't actually understand, and you spurt them randomly, like Nancy Pelosi with Tourette's. This actually fits with many of the other posts you have made that are canned leftist defenses to objective critiques of TLJ but are not really germane to what was said.

    The bottom line is it's a very poorly written movie, and it goes out of its way to deliver an ideological message at the expense of logic. Folks who embrace that ideological message defend and enjoy the movie; those who are indifferent or opposed to that message have difficulty finding objectively good things about it.

    I mean, honestly, what reason do I have to watch episode 9? To watch Mary Sue get even more Mary Sue? To not see, but rather hear, how they kill Leila offscreen? To see more Hux/Ben/Poe slapstick? To see 80 year old Lando shit his Depends onscreen (because JJ will go that far to bring an OT character into the fold to try to get people like me to bother watching)? To watch the marginalized and exploited Porgs get revenge on the oppressive Wookiee? It'll bethe last chapter, but there's no ongoing story or character arc that we are invested in; Episode 9 has been relegated by RJ & KK to nothing more than another anthology installment. Unfortunately for Disney, when I need my girl power/PETA/stupid white man fix, I can turn on MSNBC for free.

    TLJ had good effects. That's about the extent of it, and nowadays, that amounts to running a computer program, so that's not even much of an accomplishment.
     
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  5. Darth Glaxus

    Darth Glaxus Level 31

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    To me, a movie is just good or it's not. Not saying the reasons don't matter. They do. But to me, I don't try to debate rather or not a movie is good because the definition of "good" will be different for each person. Tho I liked TLJ I felt most other Star Wars movies including TFA where better. Personally I'm looking forward to Infinty War more than Solo.
     
  6. GiantPenguinCavalier

    GiantPenguinCavalier Level 46

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    One of two things is happening here: either you are a russian bot, or you are a russian person disguising yourself as a russian bot.

    all joking aside though, clearly me calling you a russian bot in jest did not sit well with you, i wasnt aware that was such a sensitive subject for you. no, i do not believe that my views on TLJ (or in general) are superior to everyone else's views, or that i'm superior because i didnt think it was total shit. I am aware that not every movie is not going to be liked by every single person; movies are ultimately subjective. there were people that thought ESB was total shit back then, but we didnt hear from them as loudly as the critics of TLJ because there was no robust social media engine to give them a platform to spout off about it. i certainly disagree with that viewpoint, but i dont consider myself better than those people, least of all because they didnt like a movie that i did. thats absurd, and it's even more absurd to suggest that.

    speaking of suggesting things, i find it pretty funny that you're trying to discredit me by simply dismissing my remarks as "leftist" -- as if thats inherently a negative thing -- and as a result intimating that im some sort of libtard. Yes, i know you've already tried to cover your ass by qualifying earlier on that you weren't actually calling me a liberal, except that you've basically gone on to do just that through the implication of your remarks (you know, what you mean and what is implied is just as important as what you say). and the thing is, im not particularly mad that you're trying to color me as one, i just fail to see how being a leftist is automatically a bad thing. and to go one step further, whether i really am or not shouldnt have any bearing in this discussion nor should it be ok to assume that i am one because i liked the movie, or that i liked the movie because i am one (but if you must ABSOLUTELY know, im am not by most counts). but if resorting to these quasi-personal characterizations is what you want to keep doing, then i guess keep it up. im sure its really helping to drive your points home.

    I saw the ideological messages TLJ had in there, but i didnt agree with all of them. and yet i didnt find it that difficult to move past it or find 'objectively' good things about it (again, movies are ultimately subjective). Plenty of people were able to do this, and it's unfortunate that you cannot or are completely unwilling to do the same. so i have some advice for you: dont go see ep 9. you've clearly already decided that you're going to hate it, and while i think that is a rather premature conclusion to come to, your vitriol for TLJ has clearly put you down such a path in which nothing ep 9 does will be good enough for people "like you" (whatever in the fuck that means). so save yourself the trouble, save us all the grief, and just stay at home.
     
  7. Biggs_Darklighter

    Biggs_Darklighter Level 17

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    Umm. Ok.

    You refer to yourself using I/me/my over 30 times in that one post. Like most leftists, you seem to think the world revolves around you. It doesn't. But hey, nice manifesto.

    Whatever your ideological leanings, you DO repeat things people on the left say to defend TLJ. And that's only bad because the left repeats (and thereby programs their disciples to repeat) things that simply aren't true in an effort to legitimize the hemorrhoid that is TLJ. Everyone is quick to call into question the motives of those who dislike the film, but why don't we stop and question the motives of those who go to such extremes to defend it?

    The latest example from you: trying to make this ridiculous comparison between TLJ and ESB by saying "there were people who thought ESB was total shit back then." Do you have any data to back that up, or are you just repeating something you read somewhere?

    To be fair, that may be true in the strictest literal sense because there are unaffected people who just don't dig Star Wars, and there were critics who discounted anything sci-fi at the time, but there was NOT a backlash by 50% of the Star Wars fanbase saying ESB was garbage. There is no comparison whatsoever to the way ESB was received. Of course the left just says I just didn't hear about it because there was no internet back then... or maybe I was actually alive back then, and I didn't hear about it because it didn't happen.

    Also, I never said I was predisposed to hating Episode 9 (I actually loved Rogue One, so there's always hope, and with Ron Howard at the helm, the Solo movie may surprise people), what I said was TLJ is such a cinematic clusterfuck that Disney is giving us no reason to anxiously await Episode 9. At the end of ESB, do you think people were interested to see the next film? You bet! We wanted to know Han's fate. Who was Yoda referring to when he said "there is another" hope? How in the heck is Vader Luke's dad and how's that gonna shake out? Forget the Rebel vs Empire plot- it was these characters we had grown to love over two movies and wanted to see how their personal stories played out. Kids went and bought the toys and played out their own scenarios in backyards across the world.

    RJ & KK gave us none of that, and that's why these toys aren't selling- nobody cares, nobody is emotionally connected to these characters. Disney made all the boys in the film look like idiots, and little girls don't fork over cash for Super Rey action figures. I don't need a marketing degree to know how that's going work out.
     
  8. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    I’m failing to see the connection between ones political views and a fantasy space opera. I do not see how one has anything to do with the other. I am a conservative but I liked the movie. I liked it for what it was, not what I thought it should be (I liked it even better after the second and third viewings). For me it was 2+ hours of fantasy to escape the bull shit we are beaten down with on a nearly non stop basis. Nothing more, nothing less. Like the arguments here. There can’t be a intelligent discussion about anything today. Either you offend someone for your views or people hate you for having an opinion different from their own. It’s one extreme or another with no middle ground and very limited intelligent discussion.

    As far as TLJ goes, let’s remember one thing....
    It’s just a movie.
     
  9. Biggs_Darklighter

    Biggs_Darklighter Level 17

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    If you like Powerpuff Girls, superhero movies, Michael Bay films, or have have communist leanings, individually or in any combination, you will almost certainly like The Last Jedi. It's made for people who just want to sit there and drool on themselves while their eyes light up with big explosions.

    If you have been following the Skywalker saga for 40+ years, and you wanted to see part 8 of that supposedly ongoing story, you're going to walk out of the theater asking yourself what the heck just happened.

    TLJ should have been the first film in Rian Johnson's spinoff trilogy, not part of the Skywalker story. That's really the gist of it. But Disney knows there's a big chunk of the fanbase that will watch anything with Star Wars slapped on it and not think too hard about it, and episodes in the main saga do much better revenue than the spinoffs. They could do Episode 9 of Rey pooping for 2 hours and some people would go see it multiple times. I mean they just showed a 2.5 hour PETA commercial with Luke drinking green jizz before committing Force suicide and some people are swearing it's a good film.
     
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  10. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    You got your point across several pages ago. You hate tlj. We get it. Awesome for you. Your repeated rants and name calling are no longer needed. Thanks for taking the high road and proving my point about how you cannot have an intelligent discussion these days.
     
  11. Hu Chi

    Hu Chi Level 41

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    I, and pretty much every single person I know, are all living proof that you are solidly incorrect.

    To be fair, I have no doubt that would break every box-office record in Germany.
     
  12. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 59

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    Honestly... there are a lot of star wars Rey "fans" who would dish out money to see that. The things I see said about her. o_O Scarred for life.
     
  13. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 59

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    I am very conservative. On the edge of libertarianism in some aspects. That actually had very little to do with me disliking the movie (though, I have to say it did have some effect on the re-watchability of the film.) Politics aren't everything. There are people who could legitimately like the movie. My sister, for one, who isn't exactly a star wars fan, liked the movie well enough. (she doesn't like any of those other genres which you listed).

    I think it had a lot to do with the expectations which someone had for the film. I was honestly expecting it to live up to Revenge of the Sith or Rogue One just because (well one, I liked those, and some may not) I had seen what modern film making could do. And TFA, while not my favorite movie, it really set up for an epic follow up. Who are Rey's parent's? Nobodies. Wow, i waited a year to find that out, why play it up so much if its gonna be that answer? Who is Snoke? I mean... still really no friggin clue where he popped out from. What is he like in action? I mean... pretty cool, til he let himself get stabbed with a saber. What happened to drive Luke away? We actually got to see that. And it also set up some nice opportunity for character development with rey, poe and finn. (who they teased were going to be our heroes for the trilogy) The problem I had with it, and why i think you see a lot of hardcore/and plain old star wars fans not liking it, is that it really didn't fit well with the others, and the plot didn't carry the trilogy forward. As a stand alone movie that wasn't supposed to be moving some characters forward, and get you excited for a further film it wasn't actually bad. As a middle movie within a trilogy it should probably have left something to look forward to. And to me there really isn't. But as a stand alone film (cutting out canto bight and holdo) its actually good

    The problem was when you had characters that were just irregular. For me mainly hux, Luke, and sorta poe and finn. Hux was kinda just a joke in this one. Luke was not himself. And poe and finn just seemed off. For one, finn seemed really really worried about rey in the previous film, and then in tlj he just kinda seems to shrug her off all of a sudden for Rose, which seemed forced. Poe was also just made a joke, and one of the instances where politics seemed to actually play a part in destroying part of the movie.

    Honestly, I would prefer my movies 100% political agenda free. Especially in a movie about a entirely different galaxy. It seemed out of place! But it wasn't a reason to automatically right off the movie, or the opinion of those who liked it. Only as a reason to right off further movies from the company, which is what I plan on doing. You have a voice, believe it or not. If everyone who complained about the political aspect of the movies actually went and refused to go Disney's movies anymore, I think that would change their mind.



    TL;DR
    Its about a .5 hour PETA commercial, with a bit of the Women's March involved. But people can like it or dislike it based on other reasons.

    Automatically assuming someone is a communist for liking it, or a Ku Klux Klan member for hating it, is part of the problem with the modern political and social landscape. People no longer are willing to listen to other opinions or listen to facts that contradict what they want to believe. Wide sweeping generalizations are out of control in this modern day and age. It needs to stop. Well... this went on a lot longer than i was expecting. 9-ish days til SWFC dies!
     
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  14. SumiXam

    SumiXam Level 51

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    That has to be one of the most ill-informed, ignorant, and childish replies I've read in a long time. A prime example of what is broken in society. Of course anyone who disagrees with you must be a closet communist, among other things. :rolleyes:

    Heaven forbid someone was actually entertained. Small minded generalizations and wannabe political posturing don't look good on anyone. The fact that you're so wound about this probably means you should find a new hobby. Not for our sake, but for your own health. I have no doubt you will continue on with your vitriolic pontificating though. For that I thank you since it is mildly entertaining.
     
  15. Biggs_Darklighter

    Biggs_Darklighter Level 17

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    There's a lot we agree on. As a middle part in a trilogy, it's a poorly conceived story. You twice address its merits if it were a stand alone film, but it's not. And to say "its actually good" IF it's a stand alone film AND if you cut out nearly half of it, well, that means its not good.

    I wish the movie had been politics-free, too. Actually, I don't even care if it has a political message if the movie is good. Hardly anything comes out of Hollywood that doesn't lean left and feel the need to address BLM, Weinstein, Trump, or something. Oh well, just entertain me without insulting my intelligence and I'm cool with it.

    But yes, I do have an issue with some of the tactics you see the left employing to defend the movie. They go so far as to say Rey isn't a Mary Sue and if you think she is you're just a sexist--actually Daisy Ridley herself said as much. Or say that dissenters aren't real, they're just bots. It's become trite, and it was never productive, just a way of undermining those who disagree with them, and yes, when people do it to me I will call them on it.

    As far as my comment about PowerPuff/Super heroes/Michael Bay/communism- I didn't mean it ONLY appeals to those people, I simply meant this movie was geared to those crowds. Rey is both 'girl power' and a super hero. There were lots of great Bay-esque special effects. Disney has stated they want to "democratize" the Force; i.e. take away the focus on the Skywalkers and show that anyone can be strong in the Force. This 'down with the bourgeoisie/rise of the proletariat' is the essence of Marxism.

    I have conservative friends that liked the movie; I have non-political friends and family that like Michael Bay and/or super hero flicks that didn't dig it; however, none of my liberal friends will do anything but defend the film. That says something.

    Also, having a spirited debate, or even a pointed discussion, doesn't mean it's not a rational conversation. We live in a society that teaches us that we can't be blunt or take a stand, you have to play nice and give in and make the other person feel special. That's a fairly new thing. The danger in debate is not in the conversation getting heated; the danger is in not having the conversation at all because people are too sensitive.

    Anyway- peace out to all you folks. SWFC was a big part of my life for a while. I had a shit-ton of fun playing it with my teenage son. I miss those good times. Now we're off to something else. I hope you people all find something, too, whether it's SW or something else.

    Best,
    BD
     
  16. Biggs_Darklighter

    Biggs_Darklighter Level 17

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    Lol. Thanks for sharing your opinion. It's ill-informed, ignorant (yes, those are redundant), and childish. Unfortunately, I can't say it's been along time since I've read anything like it--it's pretty much the standard response when people don't agree with a comment these days.

    Take it easy man, and try not to get so high-and-mighty about stuff. I have little doubt you will continue on with your vitriolic pontificating, though. I have no doubt that it will help you to one day win the internet. ;)
     
  17. TPW

    TPW Level 54

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    Don't think you're above this.
     
  18. Darth Glaxus

    Darth Glaxus Level 31

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    I liked TLJ, however I can still almost completely agree to everything you said, @hammy~the~hamsta
     
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  19. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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    I'm calling bully hunters on all of you, then myself.
     
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  20. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 59

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