Want reasonable (non partisan) discussion on politics

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Space, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. Space

    Space Level 36

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    Couple of small things .... The Berkly riot (lets call it like it was) had a protest component but that was a different beast and can't be really equated to the other protests around the country and here is why
    1.Black uniforms... ment to conceal their identities while they cause shit .... people protesting (unless in a oppressive regime which political desertion gets you locked away BUT the USA is not one of those) typically carry signs and chant etc. Ie you can see their face as they want to be seen.

    2. a typical protest escalates when confronted with an obstacle like police etc . This shit storm began before any such obstacle was reached to cause an escalation due to those who arrived with the goal of bringing it down.

    3. The tactics where more akin to a small organized group that had a particular plan instead of the loose anti trump coalition at other rallies

    Who were they? I have no idea but I bet they have anarchy leanings. Met a few that fit that moniker over my time in university and their tactics to "change" the world can be extreme. Can you call an anarchist left or right regardless what side of the spectrum they think they belong too?


    Anyone equating the GOP in a general sense to Fascism needs to look what the word means.... However given what Trump has said and some of the policies he has suggested/started a comparison of Trump to Fascism is interesting. Trump ran against the GOP in many ways. It's impossible to legitimately say the GOP = Trump and visa versa. They are not exactly chummy chummy.

    "Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[7] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[7] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[8][9][10][11] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[12]" - Wikapedia

    He doesn't fit the definition (only aspects) but he is the closest in a long long time. lol. And just as importantly Fascism does not equal Nazism. Comparisons to fascism, although interesting, are no where near one to one and to go a step further..... sigh. This idea and comparisons will be the stuff of many doctorate thesis's in the future but you need history/data to provide the comparisons. Its been what 3 weeks lol.

    Comparisons to Nazi's shouldn't be done.... however if one is going to they should contain aspects of fascism and scientific racism. ie ultra nationalistic and defining other racial groups as being inferior. As that is what they were. That doesn't fit with the current government, events or protests. Other regimes/movements/government styles have been just a brutal (if not more so) at limiting free speech and assembly (China, Soviet Russia, Gadalfi - Libya ... etc)


    What I find most troubling is it seems like amateur hour at the white house. The dumb refugee/immigration order ... so poorly written and catches a crazy number of people that it shouldn't. The way it is written green card holders cannot get back into the USA (yes they said they could but the order says no.....). dual citizens and permanent residents from ally countries. ... the bloody list goes on. What he was trying to do isn't even that draconian (sends the wrong message to the rest of the world and serves no real purpose but whatever...) but the execution was so poor. The wall and the tit for tat with the Mexican president. It is very much like going to karaoke and you wish you brought ear plugs. Looks like he'll write a new order, hopefully he gets some advice on wording before he signs it as him and his inner circle seem to be clueless on the intricacies of law.

    Where the rubber meets the road will be what the republicans do with the ACA. That will likely be the first real decision that will effect the average person.
     
  2. SumiXam

    SumiXam Level 51

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    I find it hard to believe that they could make it worse than it already is. With the ACA, the expense for health insurance became the single largest expense in my household. So much for affordable...
     
  3. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 58

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    By what ive heard its affordable for those who don't work or who hardly work... And that's about it. Could be wrong though.
     
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  4. Betta Gutta

    Betta Gutta Level 46

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    This is true for my household as well. Healthcare is a major stressor in our lives.
     
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  5. SumiXam

    SumiXam Level 51

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    All I know is that if healthcare costs continue to rise as they are with worse coverage, many regular people will be hurting far more than they already are. The ACA is the furthest thing from affordable that I can think of.

    It's truly a sad day when the monthly expense for healthcare coverage is more than the mortgage payment for a modest home, but I'm not sure the genie can be put back into the bottle.
     
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  6. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    I'm paying between 2x and 3x per month more than I was prior to the ACA for healthcare... and my copays are over twice what they were before. No clue how that's affordable, but I'm sick of it.
     
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  7. SumiXam

    SumiXam Level 51

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    Yeah, it's a nightmare. I can't afford the copay plan my company offers, so we're on a high deductible pile o' crap. Either way we pay through the nose. At least with the high deductible plan I can control some of the expense through the HSA, but not much. It's still a kick to the groin to know that 100s of dollars a month that could go towards funding my kids' education are being "invested" in affordable healthcare. That's living the dream right there.
     
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  8. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    Yeah, I love how the people who benefit the most from programs like these are those who put in the least. I was taught from a young age to budget well and live beneath my means. The only debt I've ever incurred is on vehicles and a home. I didn't even have a credit card until I turned 27. I work hard, I have volunteered my time to help my local communities, I live beneath my means, and I don't commit crimes. Yet, my government is shaving the skin off my back to make a nice jacket for those who aren't living as responsibly as I am. Forcibly, I might add. I don't mind paying taxes, but I would like to benefit from the "societal improvements" that my tax dollars are supposed to go towards. Thus far, I haven't seen any return on that investment.
     
  9. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 58

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    It would be nice if some of that money went to fixing roads so we could actually drive around here without worrying about snapping an axle in a pothole. For now I have no idea where the money is all going, and I'm not even paying taxes yet.
     
  10. Betta Gutta

    Betta Gutta Level 46

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    At a minimum, you pay state taxes almost every time you spend money.
     
  11. Betta Gutta

    Betta Gutta Level 46

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    Unless your state has no sales tax... does that exist?
     
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  12. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 58

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    Yeah you are right. We have sales tax, but i dont buy stuff usually. Im easily pleased. Saving saving saving
     
  13. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    Delaware has no sales tax. Don't worry, they rape my wallet's butthole in other ways.

    As far as roads go, much of my state's infrastructure maintenance comes from federal grants. Our roads (except New Castle county) are good. Interestingly enough, Kent and Sussex counties are both conservative, and New Castle county is liberal - not saying there's a correlation, because the money is given to the state, not individual counties... but there is a higher crime rate in New Castle county than in Kent and Sussex counties. I do believe there's a correlation there.
     
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