SPOILERS The Last Jedi discussion with spoiled SPOILERS

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by binary flotsam, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    yeah, i did miss that, for several reasons.
    - i didn't know she had a book about her until a few days ago
    -ditto for the comic
    -i don't read every single piece of star wars literature, especially about some extremely underdeveloped character like Phasma
    -quite frankly, i didn't care enough about her after ep7 to even bother to go look and see if there was anything more done for her character
     
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  2. GiantPenguinCavalier

    GiantPenguinCavalier Level 46

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    thats fair, and im not really argue against this particular facet. there were some really amazing books in the legends universe that added to the story, and there were also some really shitty ones that didnt. i also think its hard to explain the backstory of EVERY new character in a movie without weighing it down. when ESB came out, we just accepted that the emperor was the ultimate leader of the empire -- nobody asked where he came from, who he was, what his deal was. he was the emperor and vader's master and that was that. we never got any backstory on boba fett in the OT, just that he was supposed to be this badass bounty hunter who clumsily got knocked into a sarlacc pit. we ended up getting alot of this information from the prequels, so maybe thats what will eventually happen here; we'll get a star wars story movie that covers some of the time in between ROTJ and TFA.

    you also have to consider some real-life obstacles in all of this. over 30 years has passed in our world in between ROTJ and when TFA was released. harrison ford, mark hamill, carrie fisher, etc are all obviously older now. i dont think many people wouldve bought the fact that only like, 5-10 years had passed in between ROTJ and TFA given the way they all look now. they were kind of forced to set it decades after so that we wouldnt be sitting here saying, 'man those 8 years mustve been really rough on han solo.'

    neither do i. yet somehow i still knew about this (thanks internet!). the book was a fairly big deal, so im genuinely shocked that you managed to go 3 months without hearing about it even in the slightest.
     
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  3. zaymac

    zaymac Level 43

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  4. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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  5. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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  6. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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  7. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    I am a Star Wars nerd. I love all things Star Wars. I’m 41 and grew up watching the original trilogy. I saw Empire in the movie theaters and every Star Wars film since on opening day. Like many here.

    I do not understand all of the hate for the new trilogy or even the prequels. Are there plot holes? Duh. Is there some questionable writing? Sure. Are there characters we don’t like? Of course. But for all of the short comings of The Last Jedi, it does exactly what it must do, it opens the Star Wars universe to a larger picture. Star Wars isn’t “The Skywalker Saga”. It’s a whole universe we can escape to and explore where the classic battle of good versus evil is fought across an entire galaxy. It’s bigger than the Skywalkers. The Last Jedi smacks you in the face with this fact.

    I too have my issues with tlj but overall, I came out of the theater very happy and feeling very entertained. I wasn’t alone as the theater erupted in applause when the movie ended. How many movies do that??? Even with the small issues I personally have with tlj, I loved it. I’ll watch it again in the theater and I’ll buy it when it’s available. I look forward to episode IX to see how our new heroes and villains stories play out. I can’t wait to see where our Star Wars journeys take us in future films unrelated to the Skywalkers.

    Again, I personally do not understand all of the hate and wonder if so many people watched an entirely different movie than I did. I’ll leave with this question......

    5A1ADD26-9699-431B-A8BD-993BC3056E2E.png
     
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  8. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    "Are you not entertained?"

    by certain parts, yes. By other parts, no. I left saying to myself "that's it? that's the best they could do?"
    The best synopsis i had for the movie was "meh".

    We expect more from Star Wars than what ep8 delivered. I'm not talking about having sky-high expectations - i went in with an open mind. After watching Kevin Smith's review of the movie, i want to go back and watch it with his optimism instead of the sense of apathy that grew in me as i watched it the first time.

    Actually, that is the perfect word. I didn't hate the movie, I'm just apathetic to it.
     
  9. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    At least we have the last half-season of Rebels to look forward to...
     
  10. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    I do not think old school Star Wars fans expectations could’ve been met with anything short of Luke using his force powers to blow up the entire First Order fleet. I know many people are upset with how Luke was written. Including Mark Hamill but I do understand why he was written the way he was. After years of struggle, after seeing his new Jedi order being demolished, I can relate to Luke being disgruntled. To feeling hopeless. In many ways, he’s like Yoda in Empire. Yoda gives up and hides in exile, refusing to get involved and help overthrow the Empire. He too is extremely reluctant to train a new Jedi. Unlike Yoda, Luke does get involved and attempts to help..... Rey has a parallel to Luke from Empire as well. Poorly trained in the ways of the force and runs off to face her nemesis. Luke going to cloud city anyone? Also, both have a strange journey into the dark side that doesn’t make complete sense... Before the prequels, Palpatine’s story is very similar to Snoke. No real back story. Limited screen time..... Similar shortcomings between the two movies yet empire is considered by many to be the crown jewel in the Star Wars saga.

    For me, the best part of the last Jedi is that it did not meet my expectations. Many were worried that it would be a complete rehash of empire. Which would have pleased some but would have left many feeling “meh”. For the similarities between the two, I love that it didn’t do the same old same old exactly. As Luke said in the trailer, “this isn’t going to go the way you think” and I applaud The Last Jedi for that.
     
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  11. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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    Blink twice if Mickey has your family.
     
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  12. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    That’s something else I’m not understanding. Disney is a company. Companies need to make money. What’s wrong with that??? Doesn’t everyone spend money on things? Walmart, McDonald’s, PlayStation, Xbox, cell phones, internet, insurance, and on and on. What’s the issue with Disney making money? As long as they can deliver a product I enjoy, I’m happy that pay them for their services. Just like any other company.
     
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  13. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    *to pay them
     
  14. GiantPenguinCavalier

    GiantPenguinCavalier Level 46

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    please enlighten us as to what 'we' were all expecting from TLJ, and how it did not meet those expectations.

    also sounds like you went in to the movie with the preconceived notion that you were not going to enjoy it.
     
  15. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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    I don't have a problem with Disney making money. I didn't expect Luke to go super saiyan. I don't know who, what or why you're arguing against Bull.
    The movie is widely held as a shit movie for a lot of reasons, but I'm glad some people liked it idgaf. You're allowed to have shit taste, I'm a KC Chiefs fan.
     
  16. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    We = star wars fans. Excuse me if i spoke for the community, but apparently I;m not the only one who has had issues with this movie.
    One of the biggest problems was the lack of vision and continuity between what ep7 did, and what was done in ep8. They said that this movie took place right after ep7... Go back to the opening crawl of ep7 - it said that the Empire is now split into factions, the biggest of which is the First Order. Over the course of Ep7, we saw the FO lose what was probably their greatest weapon - starkiller base. Now go and read the opening crawl from ep8 - the first line said that the FO was now in control of the galaxy. If ep8 happens right after ep7 with no time skip, how did they become that powerful and dominating over the time span of ep7? There's no way ep7 took longer than a few days' time. So right there, the first line of the crawl, and i'm already saying to myself "but...that's not...how could that have happened in such a short time...sigh...ok, fine, i'll go with it."

    that thought of "...ok, fine, i'll go with it" happened to me many times while watching ep8. Way too many times.

    I went into the movie with the hope that it would be good, and tell an entertaining story. I wanted it to expand on the new characters, update us on Luke and other older characters, and be fun. I saw it on opening weekend, saturday, so i was largely ignoring the rotten tomatoes backlash as just trolls being trolls and whatnot.

    I can let some stuff go - like bombs "falling" in space, or the opening crawl inconsistency, or Phasma showing up, etc - because i know that they need to get X amount of story into Y amount of time, or because it fits the overall narrative. I can accept that things happen off-screen, like Leia learning how to use the Force and be able to force-pull herself back to the ship, or Phasma miraculously escaping a garbage compactor AND starkiller base before it blew up. But when i'm constantly questioning what i see, my hope for the movie gets eroded little by little. I can only say "...ok, fine, i'll go with it" so many times before i start saying "did they even watch ep7?" I'm not saying i'm some scholar for ep7 - i saw it twice in theatres when it came out, and haven't watched it since - i liked it, but never made the time to watch it again. I didn't think it was perfect, and went along with the parallels to ep4 because i enjoyed seeing a new story with some familiar faces added in. Ep8, on the other hand, just left me wanting a more cohesive story, and something that actually felt like a second chapter. This just felt like "here's another movie that's supposed to go between these other two movies." I don't know if there is one cohesive story for this trilogy anymore, and that saddens me. Who knows - maybe after we see ep9 and watch the whole thing back-to-back it will make sense. I really hope it does.

    This was also the first time I have seen a Star Wars movie where i checked my watch. I must have looked at my watch 5 times, which goes back to issues with the pacing and bloat of the movie. I didn;'t look at my watch during ep7 or Rogue One because i was involved with the movie. This time? I was kinda bored. Then i started doing the calculations, knowing it's 2 1/2 hrs long, as to how much time is left. Then i start thinking that Finn & Rose have to fail, because we haven't seen the scene from the trailer where Finn fights Phasma. Ok, blame me partially for watching the trailer, but blame them for adding something that spoils the mission they were on. At least Rogue One's trailer had that deleted scene of Jyn on the skywalk, limping, and a TIE flies in pointed at her. That scene was great because it DIDN'T happen, and threw me off. Ep8 could have used a little perk like that, leaving phasma out of the trailer. But that is minor.

    And just to clarify my comment about seeing it again with optimism: If i had watched it a second time and not watched Kevin Smith's reaction/review, i would probably have focused on the bad. Now that i saw Smith's telling of the story, i want to rewatch it and focus on the good.
     
  17. Bull Pence

    Bull Pence Level 37

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    I wasn’t arguing, only questioning this post and offering my worthless opinion.

    I believe the title of this thread should be “let’s bitch about the new movie” rather than its current discussion title.

    Like it, hate it. To each their own. Nothing you or I say here will change anyone’s opinion on how they perceive the movie. True there are lots that don’t care for this movie but there are lots that do. It wouldn’t have grossed over a billion already if it were a shit movie. I can’t help everyone who can’t appreciate a entertaining movie or their shit taste.

    And with that I’m leaving this shit thread. MTFBWY.
     
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  18. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    hmm, didn't know that pointing out (aka discussing) obvious plot holes, a lack of continuity, and lack of enjoyment meant that someone has shit taste.
    Yet another day where i learn something new.

    edit/p.s. - there has been plenty of opportunity to discuss what was good about the movie. You'd probably enjoy Kevin Smith's review, because he focused a lot on what he liked. An example was Poe cutting the engines on Black One and whipping it around to do a 180, or the scene on the Falcon between Luke and R2 - that tugged super hard at the heartstrings... ditto for seeing our little green friend.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  19. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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    It's just banter @Bull Pence, relax. None of us made the damn thing. EP8 has caused a lot of emotional nerd fights, and that's pretty telling given my experience with fans of the franchise over the years. Before you huff off because it's not getting it's dick sucked enough, the "It wouldn’t have grossed over a billion already if it were a shit movie" is wrong.
    1) It's Star Wars. Put the opening crawl over a litterbox and it would make 1Bill.
    2) Plenty of shit things make bank. See also; half of youtube content, fidget spinners, you get it.
    3) By a lot of measures, it's one of (if not the) worst performing SW. View drops, toy sales, ratings. It's simply not doing what SW should be doing.

    Rumor mills are talking heavily about a new direction for EP9. Biggest take from that for me is the long arm of Disney PR letting stuff like that out. People who liked EP8 need to prepare for yet another direction for EP9.

    Again, glad people liked it. Truly dgaf. But I keep seeing "look at it from this angle, see it again, it's your fault because ____, etc." everywhere and it's creepy. If someone didn't like the movie, why should they try and force themselves to? It's not my Mother-in-law.
    FWIW, Did try watching it again with someone seeing it for the first time last night and we fell asleep from cringe exhaustion. Was hoping to at least get a good laugh, as we both enjoy shitty 80's movies, but she's no desire to revisit it even to laugh at. Should I flog her before or after checking her thetan count?
     
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  20. zaymac

    zaymac Level 43

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    I think that there are more people in the media that are coming out to defend this film than any other film in history.

    Why should news media care if Star Wars fans hate the new movie. Nobody defended Justice League, Transformers or any other garbage.

    Which just makes you ask, why? And the defense articles never try and defend the inconsistencies and plot holes or lack of character development. No. It's "THE ALT-RIGHT HATES THE NEW STAR WARS!!" or "SO MANY STAR WARS FANS HATE WOMEN IN THEIR STAR WARS MOVIES!"

    Which is just the same BS I've been hearing for a year and a half. If you disagree with something, you disagree with EVERYTHING.

    There is a cultural backlash against being preached an agenda in every form of entertainment and Star Wars is the latest casualty in this culture war.
     

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