SPOILERS The Last Jedi discussion with spoiled SPOILERS

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by binary flotsam, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. bobble

    bobble Level 36

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    An article from The AV Club makes the argument that Rey being a nobody actually does a great job of subverting the lousy storytelling of Abrahms and Lucas
    https://www.avclub.com/the-last-jedis-best-moment-is-a-fuck-you-to-george-lu-1821372373
    but with Abrahms on board for the next one I'm sure we can expect a million more unanswered questions.

    I thought only white people could be racist and only men could be sexist. Are you suggesting Hollywood diversity is nothing more than tokenism and virtue signally in the pursuit of profit without any depth and they don't actually give a shit?
    Who'd have thunk it. (Everything is politics, thanks for the pics.)

    China poster ... which I saw many times in my travels but never noticed the difference because the Star Wars posters very much follow a hero poster template anyway.
    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/

    My concern about Rose isn't racism/tokenism except for how it is relates to good or bad storytelling. I don't dislike the character but her part and the casino planet story tangent didn't do anything for me, even after with that awkward bookend with the kids as the next potential generation of rebel/resistance ... the Rebsistances TM & (C) Disney Co.

    How did you not notice her in the Force Awakens?
    I thought most people on this board would be obsessive about these kinds of details. Frankly I'm surprised they haven't given her a card in this game yet but I think they'll have to sooner or later.

    I wondered about the woman who died on Hosnian prime and found out about Korr Sella played by Maisie Richardson-Sellers but she was far more noticeable as Vixen from Legends of Tomorrow (Season 2).
    The minor character I compeletely misses until it was pointed out after the fact, was a minor First Order Officer played by Hannah John-Kamen who you might know as the leading lady from SYFY channel show Killjoys.
    Seeing more of Jessica Pava was one of the better things about The Iron Fist from Netflix (and she was in Game of Thrones too).

    Bringing it back to minor characters from The Last Jedi we've got Paige Tico played by Veronica Ngo who doesn't look anything like Rose, her supposed sister.
    Which I could tie back to my earlier comments that the supposed efforts at diversity ends up failing hard by treating Asian people as interchangeable, and since I've almost run out of rant I'll end with a funny old clip:


    P.S. I like Porg
    (but I'm not sure I could eat a whole one.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  2. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    Dark Forces accounts for about 40% of my total PC gaming to this day. I'm pretty sure I have like a year of gametime on that joker. I feel like I am the full embodiment of EU Chad. The Vong are hands-down the best villains the SW universe has ever seen, and Disney trashing the EU drove a stake through my heart, dashing my hopes for a Vong movie. Oh how I'd love to see Corran Horn and Shedao Shai go toe to toe on the big screen.
     
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  3. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    A. So how exactly do bombs fall in zero gravity?
    if they want to use an explanation of "the bombs were forced downward, not dropped" then fine. Otherwise, it was kinda silly.

    B. In Rey's vision in ep7, we see Kylo and the Knights of Ren destroying the temple and killing Luke's students in the rain. Now that has been retconned into Ben bringing the roof down on Luke, and Luke wakes up to a destroyed temple. MAJOR inconsistency there. If the vision from ep7 is to be believed, then where did Ben get the Kylo outfit and helmet, bleed his crystal, build the cross guard saber, and get the Knights of Ren from in the span of time Luke was unconscious?

    C. If this movie takes place right after ep7, then how did the FO come to rule the galaxy (as per the opening crawl)? How did everyone of importance get off Starkiller Base, get onto Snoke's ship, and end up on opposite sides of a planet's atmosphere for that battle?

    D. Also, how did Phasma manage to escape from a garbage compactor, then escape Starkiller Base? Holy plot armor Batsy

    E. I still don't understand how the force users exert almost no effort now and do superhuman feats as if they were lifting a paper clip. In ep1-6, the Clone Wars, and Rebels, force users always seemed to exert themselves when using the force. You always knew they were using the force by the look on their face. Now? it's effortless.
     
  4. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 59

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    i didnt notice her i guess because ive only seen tfa once. And i didnt like it... like at all.
     
  5. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    Oh yeah, I forgot:
    F. I did like the rocket engine attached to Black One, but you think someone would have ordered a half dozen more rockets for the Resistance Bombers, so they could have moved faster than sandcrawlers.
     
  6. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    It was a very B-17ish feel. I liked the fact that they made it similar to a bombing run from WWII... but I agree with the "bombs can't fall in space" - they can spill out of the bomb doors though. I think maybe they were banking on people either not noticing, or thinking maybe a ship that large could generate a mild amount of gravity with it's internal gravity controls, etc.
     
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  7. smutpedler

    smutpedler Level 32

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    Actually a very interesting point I didn't pick up on there. Kylo didn’t have his red saber etc. In the flashback scenes. He was just Ben Solo with a blue saber. That’s actually a big hole I should have spotted as I watched all 8 other movies before going to see TLJ.
     
  8. ksnullzero

    ksnullzero Level 16

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    Yeah, i knew that's what they were going for, just as Lucas modeled the Death Star trench run on an old WWII movie called Dambusters (or something similar). Even then, why would anyone build a fighter/bomber that was THAT slow?

    i can just picture the SWFC version of the Resistance Bomber - it's a 3x3 square vehicle, targets 9 opposing cards, but it's so f'ing slow that it doesn't fire until round 40
     
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  9. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    "Tarkinbomb, the vehicle."
     
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  10. bobble

    bobble Level 36

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    A. Magic
    B. In the vision we saw destruction and dead people, we can't be sure about it and it probably happened in a later different incident than when Luke attempted to kill Ben Solo.
    C. Rey's timeline continues right after. The Rebel timeline is less clear, and I wasn't sure if they were evacuating from a different base, or the same base as in episode 7.
    D. Dubious but again I don't think the timelines are clear and it is still plausible that she someone managed get out without it taking too long.
    "Rian Johnson called Phasma “the Kenny from South Park of this series,” implying she could return in Episode IX"
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-24-biggest-questions-we-have-after-seeing-star-wars-1821308682
    E. More Magic. (I always thought Yoda made using the force look effortless, at most he showed a look of concentration.)

    I'm holding on to theory that Magic the Force is increasing in the world of Game of Thrones Star Wars, that Rey and Finn are Awakened, and that we will see a whole Universe of people Awakened to their magical potential the power of the force.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  11. zaymac

    zaymac Level 43

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    http://collider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-problems-fandom-menace/

    This is actually a good article explaining why some Star Fans are upset.

    Not the endless, "Star Wars fans hate progressivism" and "Who knew so many Star Wars fans were Trump voters?" garbage articles I've been seeing.

    But I'm pretty much done talking about Star Wars. Burn it to the ground. Let's see how far the new "5 min YouTube clip attention span" fandom gets you.
     
  12. Dannik Jerikko

    Dannik Jerikko Moderator

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    I've been hearing that Gwendolyn Christie has a 3 movie deal with Disney for this trilogy... so I'm assuming we will see her in 9.
     
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  13. wc45

    wc45 Level 43

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    I think it'll do better over time with subsequent viewings. It's hard to watch a Star Wars movie nowadays after weeks/months/years of hype and pre-tickets and countdowns to teasers and countdowns to countdowns of teasers and countdowns to Rotten Tomato scores and countdowns to countdowns. The expectations make every movie feel like it has to be great in and of itself when they're all just actually a piece of a larger puzzle.

    Anyway, I can only compare it using the looks we gave each other leaving the theatre:

    The Force Awakens:

    [​IMG]

    Rogue One:

    [​IMG]

    The Last Jedi:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  14. wc45

    wc45 Level 43

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    Also, that hyperspace missile maneuver was a lazy cheat code that instantly undermined countless scenes that came before it.
     
  15. zaymac

    zaymac Level 43

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    I actually didn't care for Rogue One either. I felt it was unnecessary. I hated CGI Tarkin and Leia. And while the scene with Vader is cool, episode 4 hurts it. Because you see him slicing and dicing and owning everyone, but this is supposed to be literally mins before A New Hope.

    And in a New Hope he is very stiff and cumbersome.

    I dunno.
     
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  16. hammy~the~hamsta

    hammy~the~hamsta Level 59

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    I find it really funny all the Mainstream media coming out of the woodworks to defend the movie... and say all the haters are against diversity and progress.
    First off: their idea of diversity is actually not diversity. It's all just political separation. Divide and Conquer.

    Second, we watch movies to actually enjoy something, not just see a cast of different races and genders. When there is hardly any plot line, no questions are answered, and the characters are shallow i think you are gonna find a lot of people don't like it, even those tripping head over heals for "diversity" Comes across as virtue signaling.

    I will say, Rogue One was probably one of my favorite movies. Ever. Something about it i found really awesome. I actually felt some empathy for the characters. They didn't seem to just be hired for their race. Sure, it had week points, but the cast really felt like they worked excellently together. They didn't have to make anyone look stupid in order to make the other characters shine. And the movie actually had a direction to it. I feel like TLJ (and in a way TFA) had something they want to do, but then can't commit to it, and we are left with a jumble of nothing. Honestly... what has come from the movies that actually benefitted the Star Wars Fan Base?
     
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  17. binary flotsam

    binary flotsam Level 36

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    KYLO.jpg KYLO1.png KYLO2.png KYLO3.png
     
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  18. GiantPenguinCavalier

    GiantPenguinCavalier Level 46

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    jeez, im glad i was gone for a week. im just going to pick at a few things here:

    why does everyone just assume the phasma is dead? yeah, falling into a fireball typically has low probabilities of survival, but we know her armor is resistant to blaster fire, so it's plausible that her armor can also withstand high temps (her eye will be burned out though). it's been established through her canon book and the comics (hey @ksnullzero , there's a comic that tells you EXACTLY how she got off starkiller base, guess you missed that) on her that she's pretty fucking good at surviving. i honestly cant believe everyone took that scene at face value. i will however agree with the sentiment that she hasnt done a whole lot thus far, which has left her to be a pretty disappointing character. and yet, was this ever said of boba after ROTJ?

    why is everyone finding it so hard to believe that the first order became a thing? everyone here screaming "but WHERE did they come from!? they couldnt have just come from out of nowhere !!!!!!!!1!!!1!11!!!1! Is it not impossible to believe that after the Emperor died, there was a big fucking power vacuum left in his wake, and all the moffs and admirals scrambled to seize as much power as they could? is it impossible to believe that a faction of the Empire consolidated and built up its power in the far outer rim until it was strong enough to take down the new republic? it's past 4am where i am right now, so im not going to research it right now, but i feel like i just described the literal plot of one of the EU legends books that everyone is holding so dear to their hearts here.

    as for the bombs.... the ship has gravity, which makes it possible for them to "fall". once they leave the atmosphere of the bomber, they have a velocity "downward" towards the dreadnought. simple as that. but if we want to get all technical about how things work in space, how the hell are there sounds in space in George Lucas's films?

    ackbar is a meme, and thats why everyone is getting so fucking bent out of shape over his death. why did he need some big huge send-off? he literally appeared on-screen for 2 minutes in the OT. and that justifies the need for some big huge heroic death? if thats the case, then where in the fucking hell is my jan dodonna send off? am i just supposed to believe that he died in his sleep of old age off-screen? what a disservice! here's i'll let this article argue the rest of this point: https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/...-fan-expectations-canon-theories-rian-johnson

    i'm seeing some shade being thrown at leia's superman scene, in regards to "there was no set up to it though, so how does the audience know she can use the force like that?" seriously? you mean you need to be shown that Anakin Skywalker's DAUGHTER can use the force by having her move around some rocks beforehand so you can believe that she is powerful in the force like her brother and is capable of something like that? here's where people forget that leia tended not to use the force nearly as much as her brother in the Legends EU. doesnt it fit leia's character much better to not see her use the force except in extreme circumstances? she's a diplomat first and foremost after all -- she uses words to get her point across, not actions.

    speaking of leia, since carrie fisher died AFTER they finished shooting, they wouldve had to rewritten a good portion of the script to give her a 'proper sendoff'. some are saying, 'well they couldve just killed her in that space scene moment instead'. yeah, and then they wouldve either had to have found someone else to stop poe's mutiny or written that part out altogether. there would be no moment between luke and leia at the end. 'well they couldve written in a death for her at the end of the movie'. how? carrie fisher is dead. you want them to bring back CGI leia to handle some huge heroic, poignant send-off for her? cant imagine people getting pissed off about that. or maybe she shouldve been killed off like ackbar was -- show a ship she is on get blown up. people would accept that, right? theyve already come out and said that wont CGI leia in ep9, so that puts them in a bind (and again, i doubt many would accept CGI leia anyway) on how to get this sendoff right. but hastily going back and rewriting/editing this film was not the way to do it.

    there are some other points i can tackle, but im going to stop for now. the one thing I WON'T be touching though is bobble's whole racism thing he's got going on. nothing good can come out of perpetuating that discussion.

    lastly, i'll leave this here: https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-last-jedi-killed-my-childhood-and-thats-exactly-wh-1821429836
     
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  19. smutpedler

    smutpedler Level 32

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  20. smutpedler

    smutpedler Level 32

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    I'm no fan of the Thrawn Trilogy tbh. Luuke just killed it for me. It's not hard to believe any of those things but the point I'm making (personally, at least) is it's lazy story telling to expect people to buy books and comics to understand the world/universe the work of fiction is based in. The movies should be able to stand alone as stories with the extra material adding added depth IMHO. You can follow the story of the pre-quels into the OT quite clearly. From RotJ to TLJ is a big empty gap. Oh, wait. It's there to sell us more books/comics. I get it. I understand it. I just think it's very lazy story telling. Nothing will change my perspective on that, I'm afraid. I'm aware we live in a different world and multimedia synergy is a thing these days but it's still lazy to not create a solid stand alone experience.
     
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